Now It’s Cool To Be An Independent Black Woman?

Just travel to another country if you want to date sensible black women. The USA is not the only place on earth where one finds Black women ( or Black men for that matter) to date and marry. Get a passport people and travel. My boy met this girl while visiting Jamaica. After a year of visiting her he brought her here and now plans to marry her. He couldn't be any happier. And no she is not doing it for the "paper"...lol.

I don't know if the music reflects an actual change in male attitudes towards women. I honestly think it's a reflection of what they know listeners (and purchasers of CDs/itunes) want to hear. If you happened to be in a club (or driving down the street) when Webbie's tune was played, you saw women get real hype off of it. I don't recall seeing men shaking their heads in affirmation. The songs really are meant to appeal to women who, whether accurate or not, believe they're taking care of things.

CD, you were in the Superdome when Jill Scott sang "Hate On Me." As soon as women heard the horns, they were on their feet like she was singing the National Anthem. I was one of those women. One of the guys with us said "What are all these [women] standing up for? All of 'em don't have as many haters as they think they do." All of that to say, it's a song that makes a woman believe that taking care of herself is a good thing. Whether or not a woman is actually doing that, she's still gonna get hype off the song. People who make rotation decisions know this, and will continue to play those songs.

Current life experience says that "mostly independent" is probably the real hotness. No one wants someone completely emotionally and financially dependent on him. However, we all (women and men) like to know that we can add something to another person's life.

Yes it is seen as attitude (confidence), which is why bm's act like hit dog and aim for the "dried up coochie" LMAO (as AT put it) when you call them on the hypocrasy of it. The immature ones anyway. Shrugs.

It's classic- if we don't bow down and act like mediocre is stellar then we must be mad single bitches. Okie dokey. I'm not mad, nor single, and no my guy isn't white (but do we even really want to go there on the interracial dating issue? It's pretty blatantly ironic- but we could!). I've been in a healthy relationship with a quality black man for over 3 years now. This doesn't mean however, that I'm so removed from the BS that I forgot what it smells like! Just keeping it fUnKy. Pun intended. Yes some black women have attitudes, but that isn't intrinsically tied to independence. So do black men. But only with them is it acceptable. (again- the immature ones)

But like I said it's a recession- so I suppose the consumer should be happy just to get a slice of pie- even it's it molded.

So is the problem that Black women come of as having attitudes about their independent status?

Women, do you feel like the men perceive it as attitude, or are conditioned to believe that we are throwing them tude about our independence, when its really just confidence?

So much blame on the black man. It's like we've gone from addressing problems on both sides to "Oh, it's them niggas' faults. Let's put our dried-up coochies together with some cheese and wine so we can hate on Black men together." Like I was alluding, Black women and Black men vs "unstable creatures". I know plenty of good independent Black people. But, it's those "unstable creatures" that fuck it up for everyone else. Personalities and attitudes need to be addressed on both sides. I can only speak for me. I think I am a good dude. I don't deserve the attitude and bullshit so I won't accept it. If that makes me one of them niggas that up and walk out because "I can't handle it an independent Black woman", then so be it. Stay bitter and stay alone. Or, find a white guy to put up with that silly shit. Maybe fix your attitude? Nah, that could never be the problem.

Some of yall women got them Trueblood demons and don't even know it. LOL

I agree that the confusion seems to be that when a woman says "I don't need a man" it gets heard as "I don't want a man." Hell I don't need a car, but I swear life is much more enjoyable when I have don't have to rely on public transportation. In reality people live very full rich lives without a significant other, but almost every person would love to (want) to have someone special who loves and care for them. On the other hand what the independent woman realizes is that she has a choice that for decades women did not have. She can choose to be single and live a rich life rather than be forced to stay with a man or find a man to fulfill her basic needs like shelter, food, clothing etc. The luxury of independence/self- sufficiency on the material level is that now women are free to choose their mates based on his character and now he treats her instead of his bank account. You would think men would appreciate at not being assessed solely by their wallet, but what I have found is that finding a man of strong character is a lot more difficult than finding one with a fat bank account. As a beautiful woman, I have been offered the world on many an occasion, but unfortunately the man offering it is either married, old as dirt, giving it to 2,3,4 other women, a liar, a cheat, ...

Gentlemen it's time to step up your game and be more than walking penises and wallets!

So is this why I'm stiiiilll single?? Cause brothas can't handle independent sistahs? I don't think I'd want a man that is insecure about a black womans independent success. Hell, black men are part of the reason why so many sistahs are "independent". It's not that we don't need them, they either walk out or don't step up. All you single moms know what I'm talking about. Yall don't have a choice but to become independent...like my mother. So Ne-Yo has it a little twisted. Sistahs want to share there successes with a brotha that isn't gonna trip cause we had to do it for ourselves. And maybe that explains why more sistahs are dating white men!

And that's what's real Mel.

AT-The problem that I have in your last post is that you seem to think that a woman's attitude is "out of place". Real woman don't conform to what you or any man think is out of place, or anyone in society for that matter. Why is it that a woman is a "Bitch" if she has an opinion that doesn't coincide with yours? I have met many men that nag and complain way more than I have ever heard a woman do, I guess that makes them Bitches?!! The bottom line, Black men(In general) and black women(In general) don't love and respect themselves and therefore they will never learn how to love and respect each other, until they get past the nonsense that is going on inside their own warped mentatlity. My experience in my independent world is that real men, who are intouch with their true inner-selves, love real women who are intouch with their true inner-selves. Make no mistake, like does attract like. What you put off in the universe will come right back at you in some shape or form. Where I come from, being independent is not a bragging right nor is it something to be ashamed of. It just is what it is. I do need a man but not to pay my bills, or buy fancy things for me, I can do that for my self, afterall, I'm his woman not his pet doll or his daughter! I need him for all of the mature reasons that human beings need each other, human connectivity. Basic, dealings on a true, honest and caring, human level. Alot of people need reality checks in this life.

The fact that a bitch does not = an independent woman is nothing new to women. No need to explain that, it's men that seem to get that twisted. Also, keep it funky -like attracts like, if you keep attracting bitches, you have to also look at the flaws in your own personality.

I'm just saying a lot is expected out of an independent woman (from her partner) in terms of looks, attitude, personality, values, etc. And women are often chastised for not *owning up to their flaws*. Now, expectations are wonderful- I more than encourage them. I also encourage self-reflection and honest evaluation. But men rarely seem to be able to take responsibility for their own bullshit- and when they do get called on it, are pretty quick to point the blame back at black women. Yet women are often expected to understand, accommodate, and even try to compensate for the *plight of the poor black man*. We essentially then, become the root of *all* of the problems in bw/bm relationships. At least try to understand where the woman is coming from. The fact that I have mature friends, men and women who can engage in a honest dialogue about this and openly admit flaws in self and gender perception, that cause conflict in interactions, tells me that a fruitful conversation is possible. But it can only happen if black men take some responsibility too. Your posts (AT) are a *prime* example of this lol.

Independent women have ALWAYS been cool with me. I can't sing tho. LOL.

And, I wouldn't have gotten into marketing if I didn't believe people in general weren't followers of the media. I mean, that's the whole premise of marketing - branding, promoting, advertising, selling goods and services. However, we don't always appreciate the fact that the media also markets ideas.

But, I also think that there's more to a woman than her independence. At the same time, I think the concept of independence tends to turn some women into assholes too. Independence only means you handle your own business. But, it's like I alluded to earlier with the story of the party; being independent doesn't mean women have to become catty, annoying, nagging assholes. I think too many women pick up very nasty habits that are not exclusive to independence and then have the idea that men don't like independent women.

I love independent women. But, I can't stand bitches. And yes there is a difference. The major difference is that bitches bitch more and bitching is contagious. There I said it. Real women don't have a lot to bitch about because their attitudes aren't funky and out of place. I think the key for any man is to find an independent woman who's also happy with herself and their happiness not just a word they throw around to convince themselves they don't have serious personality flaws.

The problem is that both sides ignore a key element of the other argument.

Women- we (generally speaking) proclaim our independence, which shouldn't really be to our detriment. However what black men claim to be the problem is that when we say "we don't need you" it also means "we don't want you". The latter is not necessarily true- and perhaps that's a point that an independent black woman needs to make clear to her man.

Men- you all tend to ignore the fact that the reason the indep. bw's make these proclamations clear is that this perception of desperation and urgency to find a good black man has been pushed on black women VERY hard. Regardless of your accomplishments, achievements, goals, or aspirations you should be willing to settle for less than your own prescribed standards because "he's a hot commodity" even if "he" is not necessarily worth a piece of $h!t- and I'm really referring to those 'scandalous' dudes with ho~ish behavior who want to juggle 3 and 4 b/c this 'ratio' is on their side. lol

These are both just examples, but I think the general premise reigns true. I feel that as women have started to call ppl on the *settle or be alone* dogma, "Some" men (who NEED us to believe this in order to get any play) are starting to feel a lil threatened again- hence the constant reminders of statistics, theories, and yada yada.

When you cry *famine* and there isn't one- ppl panick and go out and buy excesses of food to stock up, to make sure they're not affected. This creates a famine- and you have a self fulfilling prophecy. What women are starting to do is to fall back and ego's are getting hurt. The supplier needs the customer to believe that supply is low and demand is high- and when demand for his product is high, he can sell even if his customer service is poor. Many women are starting to realize that this latter example doesn't accurately represent the state of the black relationships on all levels. It depends on your background, circle of associates, connections/networks, and even exposure. (i.e- if you've never or rarely met successful black men, or don't exist, and you want one- you will perceive there's a famine! But when you go to grade school, college, church, live in the same neighborhoods, were raised by, are friends with, or have been in relationships with successful black men- you know they exist, b/c that's what you've been exposed too.)

The smart guys (i.e the music artist like Neyo, most male R&B singers/groups) know to play to the sentiments of the woman. While all these dudes are saying f- bw's who are independent, they're making $$$ and getting play by being the ones that *love* independent bws. That's just smart on their part- I don't know if I can attribute that to a knew positive trend (it's like the stock market on Monday, I'll wait n see what happens before I get excited.)

Men- you're right in demanding that a woman make it clear that she wants you even if she doesn't need you. Especially if the two of you are trying to nurture a successful relationship.

But you're wrong in expecting her to need you because there's a *so called* recession.

So my question is this. When did being independent become cool? I swear I was just talking to black folks about this last week!

Are we such followers of the media that now it will become a main stream thought. Will music change the opinion of black men...based up on the word according to Neyo?

i'm a dumbass, too. that's ambitious, not ambitions.

kim kardashain isn't independently wealthy. take her father's money away, and she's working at wet seal. other than a little bit of fame, she brings absolutely nothing to the table.

the independent women that this song speaks of are those who are generally educated, very ambitions, and bring way more to the table than just ass implants and large tiggoes. i prefer women like such stated above. and women like that aren't exclusively black, either.

<== brings a whole lot to the table.

Hidaya, "independent women" aren't talking about just one dude. For them, and people in general, it's a culmination of bad relationships that bring them to that point. It's their own bad decisions with men that lead them to dysfunctional generalizations of all men. It's deep shit.

I was at this party a few years ago. It was my brother's wife's sister's party. She's this big time author so she's connected to all the other successful women. This party was the saddest grouping of lonely, pitiful, pretentious, obnoxious, "independent" and childless women over 40 I've ever seen in my LIFE. Literally, a herd of women with nothing better to do than whine, complain, and bash Black men or just men in general claiming they don't need nor want a man even though most of them barely had a man.

Cocoa, I think that music shouldn't be forced to have a face in the first place. It all depends on who's listening and how they interpret the song. When I listen to it, the independent women I picture in my mind are Black women, the people that I know. But, I won't sit here and front like I wouldn't check for a white, spanish, asian, or alien LOL. I can only speak for myself.

I feel that the music industry singing about "the Independent Woman" is a reflection of its audience. Because a lot (not all!) of the R&B audience has the "I don't need a man" mentality, the music industry has switched to please those women.

The producers have realized that mentality and they are making money from it. Good for them.

Someone asked me this question off the blog. Did any of these independent women songs specifically mention the independent "black" woman. I responded, "No, not specifically." My reader felt that these artists aren't looking for black women but independently wealthy white women like Kim Kardashian.

How do you feel about that?

"Brother, if you live long enough, you too will meet someone who’ll have you saying: “I dont need this & I can do bad by myself!”

LOL"

Been there, done that, sick of it. Like AT said, an independent woman is a mandate, because if God calls me home, I need to know my family will be taken care of, and not because I want her to take care of me while I'm here.

And yes, a man who's doing something in his life would want a woman in his life who will understand his hustle and his struggle. You can't do that by sitting at home and watching the View all day or working at Wal-Mart. That's why all of us need to be strategic in how we date, and not just financially, but spiritually, mentally, AND physically as well.

To Anthony Taurus: U stated that you've heard Black women say “I don’t need no man” or “I can do bad all by myself.” Okay, real talk, when a woman is saying that, she is referencing some random dude who is not the business... some lack-luster, under-achieving, lazy dude. So what's wrong when she can RECOGNIZE it and call it out? Yes, she can do bad by herself...then she keeps it moving!

Brother, if you live long enough, you too will meet someone who'll have you saying: "I dont need this & I can do bad by myself!"

LOL

I remember my barber spoke on this. He said, "You got all these women out here thinking they the shit when only a few years ago they couldn't do shit by themselves." I couldn't help but laugh.

"From my understanding, to a man, the independent woman doesn’t appear to have any needs or problems, and her self-assurance wouldn’t allow her to seek help even if it was required."

Sorry, but that's not appearance. How many times has a Black woman said, "I don't need no man" or "I can do bad all by myself." Seriously. The former is a successful Black woman's mantra. The latter is a broke Black woman's mantra. Rich or poor, many Black woman make it absolutely clear that they don't need a man in their lives.

As far as independent women, I love em. I want one.. maybe even two. LOL. Seriously, I just want to know "if something should ever happen to me, you guys are ok." That's my mother's line to me when she shows me deeds, insurance policies, bank accounts and so on. My mother taught me to invest in the future. So while I live my life to the fullest in the present, I also ensure my future. That means I've got to pick the right woman for myself for today and tomorrow.

Notice the men singing these lyrics are men with money... Who want to keep their money... Their attraction to the Independent Chick is a no-brainer.

You'll still hear insecure men saying that same ol' thing. But a man who's a go-getter? He wants an asset. Not a liability. I'm just glad this ideology has trickled down to hip-hop/R&B.

hey i'm just glad we're not getting hated on anymore. i take all the love i can get ;-)

e.